2023-2025 Fellow at Grunin Center for Law and Social Entrepreneurship and Teaching Fellow, International Transactions Clinic, NYU Law
In addition to being a Fellow at the Grunin Center for Law and Social Entrepreneurship, you’re also a teaching fellow in the International Transactions Clinic. What do you enjoy the most about teaching? What challenges has it involved?
I work with Professor Deborah Burand [director of the International Transactions Clinic]. We run a seminar twice a week where we introduce students to concepts related to debt and equity. The rest of the time, we are supervising their pro bono legal work for clients who are engaging in international deals focused on impact investing.
What I have enjoyed most is watching when my guidance, once given to students, is translated into effective results for the clinic’s clients. This includes both when the students exhibit improved soft skills and substantive work. In this way, I feel I am having a reverberating effect on the students and fulfilling my roles as teacher and lawyer.
But it was initially challenging trying to carve out my role in the classroom on my own terms. I had no prior professional teaching experience, and I found myself at the helm of a rigorous academic environment. The students looked up to me, and I was apprehensive about how I could make sure to have a meaningful influence on them. After some time—and a little trial and error—I discovered what I could uniquely contribute to the classroom discussion and clinic work.
You mentioned impact investing. Can you describe that concept?
It’s a fairly recent term that has come into being. It describes investments that are made with the intention of generating measurable social impact alongside a financial return. The focus could be anything from the environment to all sorts of social causes. And the investment can come in the form of stocks and bonds or microloans. A lot of the major impact investors right now are smaller private institutions or multinational development banks.
The impact investing world focuses on social enterprises, which encompasses many of the clinic’s clients or their counterparties. One of our clients, for example, is working on water filtration franchising in rural communities in Africa. Students learn the substance of impact investing through the seminar reading materials and the discussion that we facilitate during class discussions. Through their pro bono legal work, they’ll learn how a specific transaction is done. One of the mantras that we follow is to teach to the deal. We encourage students to bring up what’s going on with their clinical work in the classroom and we discuss how it touches the concepts covered in the course.
Why did you apply to NYU Law as a student?
I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, where I studied International Relations. I experimented with the courses that I was taking, but International Relations really drew me in because I’m curious about the world. Law school just seemed like an open door—a door that opened to a lot of possibilities. It would be a place where I could shape my career and carve things out on my own terms. There is a lot you can do with a law degree. I was interested in getting a solid academic education, and I realized that some of the most important takeaways from law school are fundamental skills that translate to various careers.
What stands out to you when you reflect upon your time at NYU Law?
I remember having some very meaningful conversations with professors during their office hours, which I think is something great about the NYU Law ecosystem. You can see the sensibility of the professors and their interest in raising the next generation of lawyers. I think NYU, at large, does a great job of exciting students. You certainly feel that in the law school, in a more intimate way, because it is a smaller community.
After graduation, you worked as a corporate associate at Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian, LLP. What was that experience like for you?
I was working on venture capital and start-up transactions, both domestically and internationally. Working there really taught me a lot of the skills that I now use with the students, but I’ve modified them for the classroom context. One thing that’s a little bit different about working at a firm compared to teaching is in how you give direction. At a firm, if you’re dealing with someone who is junior to you, you can give instructions and point them in the right direction. With students, because they don’t have the practical training, you have to model things out for them. One philosophy that I’ve tried to adopt is leading from behind.
How did you learn of the fellowship at the Grunin Center and why did you apply?
Something that always stuck with me since I was at NYU Law—through the classes and environment—was that we were intended to be lawyers in society. I felt in my job [at a corporate law firm] that I was a bit disconnected from that concept. I didn’t feel like I was having the “impact” that I wanted to have. I happened to be going through my NYU email and I saw a letter from the Grunin Center, advertising that they had some open positions. I had been familiar with Professor Helen Scott [then co-director of the Grunin Center for Social Entrepreneurship]. I saw her name and then things just clicked. As I looked more into it, a light bulb went off, “Social entrepreneurship….That’s something that I’m interested in.”
Given the effect that teaching is clearly having on you, is it also influencing your future career plans?
There are rarely opportunities that check off so many boxes. It’s been a rewarding and meaningful experience that has changed my life. I’ve been learning so much from the students, which I never expected. They have made me more thoughtful about myself and the type of lawyer that I want to be as I continue on my post-law school journey.
What do you enjoy doing in your leisure time?
I love New York City. That’s why I’ve stayed here. New York has so much to offer, especially its thriving arts scene. But my favorite place is Central Park—I recommend the Ramble or the North Woods.
This interview has been condensed and edited. Posted December 10, 2024